Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Hello and welcome to the Coaching in Education Podcast Series. I'm Leigh Hatcher. I'm in a Skype conversation with Anthony Phillips and Shani Andrews. Anthony is head of English at Santa Maria College in Western Australia. Shani has been Head of Professional Learning at Santa Maria College and is now Head of Senior School at Perth College. They've both seen significant benefits from the Teacher Growth and Development Framework, or GROW, a program designed to develop a culture of improvement with coaching and feedback in education. It's aimed at improved teacher performance and better student performance. So, how were they both first introduced to the concept of coaching?

Shani Andrews:
Santa Maria College in Perth has undertaken a number of coaching international training programs since 2015. We started off in 2015 and we put all of our middle and senior leaders through the Introduction to Leadership Coaching Program, and then we also worked with the GROWing High Trust Relationships and the DiSC® Management Profile Program. And then in order to make sure that everyone sustains their skill level and builds their capacity, all of those people and all middle leaders since continue to do half-day refresher programs.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Anthony, tell us how it started for you.

Anthony P
We found it really interesting. They introduced us with the DiSC® profile but took it further. We did a lot of work on critical conversations and Growth and Growth within the team, so I found the overall process really useful and also fruitful. I found it really improved my own leadership skills, which was good because I was relatively new to the job at Santa, so I found it quite empowering that I also think it empowered my team. As a result, I feel as though it's really made great inroads within the subject area as well. Yeah, we're really happy with the process so far.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Great stuff.
Shani, can I specifically ask you about Santa Maria College and the GROW Framework? Give us the background of that, and perhaps for the uninitiated just a brief explanation of the GROW Framework.

Anthony P
My role at Santa Maria was Head of Professional Learning and I was appointed that in, I think, 2013. My first place to start with was the AITSL Australian Teacher Performance and Development Framework. That's a fabulous framework because what it did is it overriding says that all schools need to establish a culture of continuous improvement. Part of that is where coaching and teachers gaining feedback is essential in allowing them to be quite focused and targeted on exactly where they want to improve in their performance, and so it was a natural inroad for us to then be able to develop a framework that suited our own culture at Santa and we did that commencing pretty much that year and 2014.

So really the GROW Framework works on the premise that teachers gain feedback from a variety of sources, and a number of those are from clear observation, working with their colleagues, coming into the classroom and giving targeted feedback, as well as online student surveys. Every student engages online and gives targeted feedback for their teachers, and that feedback is based on the AITSL teacher standards. Where once teachers have been open to the feedback, they then engage in a coaching conversation with their head of department to be able to be quite strategic in what sort of goals they want to set across the different standards as to what they want to work on over a particular timeframe.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
So, Anthony, what's the GROW Framework look like in your context?

Anthony P
We do provide two surveys and we've changed them slightly as well, just to make sure it's about the student, the class relationship with the teacher, which is Shani's intention all along. But what we've really concentrated on now is the confidentiality. The service actually, so with me and the teacher, they don't go above me in any way, so that way it establishes a good sense of trust with my staff.

After a big class survey, I do have a conversation, so we look for patterns with staff. We do concentrate on strengths. Overwhelmingly the surveys have been really positive and been a source of reinforcement for staff, so there is some trepidation sometimes when the first survey is done, but once they see the results and the patterns, they're fine. Sometimes there is an occasional comment which might be an outlier, but it's really important that we just ensure that the staff understand that and don't panic in those situations. But overall it's been really positive. People have been able to identify patterns for further specific targeted growth.

I also have two lesson observations as part of the GROW Program where we go in. We try to keep them low pressure as well. I think the problem sometimes with lesson observations, which we've tried to reinforce with our team, is a lot of teachers have some special lessons up their sleeves. We just want the teacher to be in there practising as normal rather than have a super lesson that they've got ready for us so we can just see the reaction as per normal.

I have a conversation with my team after each lesson. I always look at three specific areas of strength to further reinforce them. They're also three targeted areas where we could look at potential growth, understanding though that it's just the one lesson that you've seen and you can't always do everything within the one lesson. Staff have been doing an AITSL survey, which Shani had set up based on the work by Hattie, which is obviously critical for education and teaching after that the AITSL survey. Now, I'm not privy to it. Some staff do want me to see it. I'm not really interested in seeing it, I'm interested in the feedback that they get from it and the areas that they feel they can improve from that survey. I'm more interested in that. So we have a conversation after all those stages so by the time we get to the growth goal, which basically is generally a longer term goal now for the following year, specific and targeted, there's lots of areas that they can draw on in terms of rooms of improvement. We've got that all there, we've been in constant conversation, and we just try to ensure that the staff member's chosen a goal that they really want to look at, that they're keen on achieving, rather than just doing it for the sake of doing it.

I've been really impressed with staff. I had a staff member the other day who put it in the back of her journal. A couple of years later when I came to observe that lesson, she had ticked off everything that she'd targeted. That's happened numerous times since the program implemented by Shani. So, we're really proud of the specific growth and reflection that's occurring.

For us it's a little bit like teaching. We concentrate on metacognitive strategies and reflection, we're always looking at specific targeted Growth as well, and students' brains can grow, they can work and improve themselves constantly. So a lot of the work that we've been introducing to our teams of late ... I've done a couple of PDs on Carol Dweck's work on Growth mindset, and the school is looking at introducing some work on [inaudible 00:07:20] and Growth mindset, which really compliments the work that Shani's implemented at the school. It's all focused about we can grow. There's areas of specific improvement and we can improve.

It's in a positive fashion, never about the blame game and it's always about specifically targeted Growth and reflecting on where we're at, where we'd like to be. We've just found it fantastic. It's very complimentary to the ongoing GROW work that Shani and the Santa Maria team implemented./p>

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Shani, how would you say, notwithstanding some initial trepidation, how would you say the GROW Framework has been both received, and what impact have you seen of the program?

Shani Andrews
I think the biggest thing, when we were designing it we were always mindful that any type of performance development program you put in place, it's how it's perceived with the people who will be using it. So, we were really cognisant of making sure that this wasn't an administrative ticker box exercise.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Yeah, too right.

Shani Andrews
And so, we engaged with a lot of consultation, particularly with the heads of learning area, and I think through them, and one thing that's come through with the coaching training, is that these people are real influences among their team, and so then if we can get the support of those who would be working closely with the model, that empowers them and helps them support the people who are engaging with the process, and so that's the strategy that we took.

I think because we also introduced it over time, we had already established the practice of peer observation and then we introduced the process of student surveys as a voluntary opt-in process. So by the time we actually got to the GROW process as an actual college process, a lot of people were comfortable with those types of initiatives anyway.

I think also, too, the fact that it's coming into its third or its fourth year and we've been able to also seek feedback on how well it's working and people have had a voice in that, people have actually now come to accept that this is a process, it's a good process, it's backed by the AITSL standards, there's a lot of resources behind it and people have been trained properly to engage with the process and lead it. I think, generally, people see the benefit of it.

Anthony P
For me it's been a couple of things. I think the coaching program and the work that the team did with middle management at our school was empowering in terms of the Growth Program, but also in how we treated our staff and how we communicated with them. Really building on trust has always been something that I pride myself in, but it was good to see the whole team get involved with that.

But for me, I think in my previous roles I've probably been a little bit diplomatic without directly communicating in terms of critical conversations, and with the Growth Program, Grant (O’Sullivan) took us through all those things as well, so we learnt how to engage in critical conversations, doing them as timely as possible with direct communication and I think that's been great. I've always been solutions-based, but I think that direct honest communication is something that I felt that I really improved on and I think the whole team benefits from that, I can see critical conversations occurring.

In terms, for example, a solutions-based area, which was great, I think in terms of Growth it also meant that the team became to be interested in the GROWTH culture so that it'd be embedded within the school and the team. So we actually have four observations that teachers do with other teachers outside of what I do. It's just part of their own growth, and with those observations teachers can help out other teachers. They participate as well within those classes and my staff have found that really empowering as well. They're learning off each other so they're basically peer reviewing as well.

In terms of the program itself, I think, as Shani said, we're owning it, it's based on solid research, it's enabled an open conversation and discourse within the team and the school. So I think the main thing for me is that it's enabled a growth culture in general, a greater sense of trust within the school, which is great, and it's also allowed us to explore other areas of growth with recent research that's out there.

I go home and talk to my wife, who actually works a little bit in brain trauma, so she knows a lot about brain plasticity, and a lot of that just comes from Growth mindset as well.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Wow.

Anthony P.:
So it's quite interesting how they're all interrelated, and we're doing a lot of work like that with the team as well, so it's actually taken us along a few different paths.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Great stuff

Anthony P.:
So that actual program is still there and it's been fantastic. I think the program that Shani and the team brought in has enabled that growth into other areas, and it's kind of spiralled out and affected the school in a really positive way.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Anthony, can I ask you specifically about reflective practice? What benefits have you seen from that?

Anthony P.:
Yeah. Look, that's a basic metacognitive strategy that we use with our own students. In our subjects we always have reflection, looking at reinforcing strengths, which is what we're doing with Growth (Coaching), but also looking at specific areas where they can grow and also the how. All we're doing is taking what we do with our students anyway, which is an open reflection. We have it online with parents, we're taking that into what we do with staff, and we know for a fact that if we do concentrate on reflection and develop key strategies in order to make those reflections happen, that we can get growth ourselves.

I've seen it with staff. Like I said, I go into the lesson a couple of years later and usually they've ticked off that goal straightaway. I've been really impressed by it. So, if staff own it, which I find the vast majority do take it seriously, then there's great growth opportunities there. And we're all after perpetual improvement and growth in what we do, and then teachers actually becoming really interested and keen on pedagogical practices as well as a result of that, so very effective.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
You're listening to the Coaching in Education Podcast Series. I'm in conversation with Anthony Phillips and Shani Andrews from Western Australia.
So, where's the rubber hit the road? How have they both seen this approach personally impact on their staff?

Shani Andrews:
One of our junior school teachers, she was a year five teacher, we went through the process and I actually, at the end of the process, I hadn't had a lot of work with this particular teacher, but I was the one that in the end had the coaching conversation with her. There was a couple of aha moments for her because we'd gone through the lesson observations, we'd done a lot of work around where her students were at, her observations of their strengths and the areas that she wanted to look at. She went and had done the AITSL survey, she'd received the feedback from the students, and the goal that she did set actually was not a goal at all.

That was a great coaching conversation because it was more of an action that she set, and that was really to just get her marks back on in a more timely manner. I had to sort of bring into account and say, "That's actually not a goal. Do you realise that? That's an action." It allowed us from there to explore through the strategies that we'd picked up through our training, to explore something far deeper. At the end of that conversation, as we were trying to really define the goal, you could see that, and this was right at the end of the year before she was about to go off on holidays, but you could see the energy in her shift.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Wow.

Shani Andrews:
Her face lit up because she had to own it and it had to be a motivating goal. But at the end of the conversation you could physically see that she was feeling lighter and that she was actually, as exhausted as she was, because it was the end of the year, she was really looking forward to putting some planning in place so that she could do something the following year with her girls.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
I've often heard that you can actually see a physical impact on people with this, which seems quite remarkable.

Shani Andrews:
When they've nailed a goal that actually is meaningful for them, yes, that's when you see a change.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
Anthony, what about you? Can you think of one specific incident or story?

Anthony P.
We've got a fantastic teacher at the school. There was a couple of areas that we identified and he identified as well in terms of teaching. So there was two areas that they wanted to work on, which is success criteria, embedding it a bit more in the lesson, and also they found that their discussion practices in English were basically teaching the entire class, which was good, but it can be time-consuming and it might mean that the teacher's leading a lot of the thinking rather than the students leading it.

His goal was actually to come up with a variety of discussion practises and allow the students to take on more thinking strategies and take on a bit more ownership within the discussion, and it was really fantastic. I came back and saw him the other day post-goal, and he had a lot of share activities where students were accountable of what they said and then brought their points up in the class. They were group share activities too.

He also gave the students some thinking strategies prior discussion time so that when the discussion did occur, they had a number of points to raise based on their own thinking rather than the teacher's, which is where we really want our students getting. So I was over the moon, the teacher was really happy. He said personally for him that it was a moment where he realised that he had to relinquish control, which we often have with staff and teachers, because sometimes they feel as though they need to control what they're learning in the class rather than allow the students to grow and make mistakes and take risks and take on challenges.

So it was a real win for him and he said it's changed his whole perspective on teaching. He's been able to take a backseat, relinquish control and allowed the students to think and engage with different strategies of discussion. I felt that was a really rewarding conversation. Credit to the teacher too, because they've taken on their goal and made it happen.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
I always love hearing stories like that.
Shani, just briefly to wrap up, what advice would you have for others thinking of implementing this type of program in education?

Shani Andrews:
I think the first thing that anyone would need to consider is staff readiness, because this is a cultural shift in people's mindsets and the way that they operate and the way that others lead and support. From a HOD perspective, it's not about the transactional leadership anymore, it's very much about taking your staff with you on a journey and for teachers it's about putting pedagogy first. Be prepared to be patient and introduce things slowly. Let people feel comfortable with these if it's something significantly different that you're initiating.

The second thing I would suggest is in the development of any process, is you involve as many people as you can. Let them feel that they've had a voice and that they've been part of the creation of it and then the evolution of it. Thing implemented top-down don't tend to get that sense of ownership from those who are expected to engage with it.

The other is to just encourage people to have a go, to start having conversations. As coaching conversations they feel clunky to start with, they really do, but the only way that you get more intuitive about it and more natural and more effective at it is to continue having those. And I think what my observations were is that the more that people have them as regular conversations, from a HOD perspective certainly, Anthony and I have often discussed, the less they've found they needed to have those really difficult conversations.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
That's amazing.

Shani Andrews:
Because they were having coaching conversations far more regularly, and because they were so much more solutions-focused, you're not having to have more of those performance management conversations. They see that improvement isn't that they need to be a perfect teacher, improvement is something that they can always be working on. It can be a small improvement, but gosh, it can make a huge impact in their classroom experience.

Anthony P.:
I think it's important that the trust factor's there and you continuously work on that through direct honest conversations. I think having the process as democratic as possible is a key to implementing as well, and being flexible to change things where we might find there might be a couple of elements in the surveys which we've changed after conversation. It's really crucial to understand that it is about growth rather than an appraisal as such, or something negative, so if we focus on the growth and we focus on that's what we're doing with our students, that's what we're doing as a team as well, and we're all in it together, I find that the staff come on board.

Sometimes they do have to go through the initial process to say, "Hang on, I have learned something from it. I have gained something." I've never had someone go through the process and remain with a fixed mindset, they have always looked at growth by the end of it. The impact not only within the team, but within the student cohort, is tremendous.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
What a wonderful story. I'm hardly surprised, knowing a bit about your school and your professional experience.
Shani and Anthony, thank you so much indeed for sharing a great story with us.

Anthony P.:
Cheers, Leigh.

Shani Andrews:
Thanks, Leigh.

Leigh Hatcher (presenter):
You've been listening to the Growth Coaching International Case Study podcast series. I'm Leigh Hatcher. Check out some of our other great podcasts in this series Inspiring and educational. They're atwww.growthcoaching.com.au